A Call for Interaction
A couple days ago I inadvertently brought up an issue that caused a small—well, very small—firestorm. It was more of a momentary flare-up, really. But in the comments following Spiritual Journey: Risky Prayer & Coercive Modesty, a provocative issue arose. Encapsulated in a question, the dilemma is
How does spiritual prayer interact with God’s will?
Fleshing the problem out, we could ask:
If I don’t get what I ask for, was it my fault?
Does my faith, or the lack thereof, directly regulate God’s answers?
What does it mean to pray “according to God’s will?”
Fundamental to the problem was the sensation that it may be simplistic to simply say, “Your prayer was not answered because of your puny faith.” At the same time, we have to come to terms with the fact that this may be the case.
As James wrote, “Ask boldly, believingly, without a second thought. People who ‘worry their prayers’ are like wind-whipped waves. Don't think you're going to get anything from the Master that way, adrift at sea, keeping all your options open” (James 1:6-8, The Message).
How do we resolve this seeming impasse? More fundamentally, what does it mean to pray in faith, to pray spiritually, in a way that honors God? How specific should our prayers be? How specific should be our expectations of response?
I’d like to invite anyone who’s interested to blog on this topic. Your post need not be exhaustive. (Although it might be if you’ve read Providence and Prayer…) I’ll post on the question as well. The additional challenge, of course, is to not merely formulate our own thoughts, but to do so in a way that corresponds with God’s word on the topic. Our takes will need to mirror spiritual truth. Unless, of course, you’re an open theist. In that case, you may as well say whatever you like.
The mic is open.
When you write your piece (and I hope you will!), please post a link in the comments section, and, if you would, link back to this post as well. I’m hoping for some energizing interaction... Is it possible that we might start praying more as a result?
11 comments:
Hey, i am not playing by the rules... i just spent 45 minutes futily trying to link to individual comments and your specific blog entries to my blog and I am tired and I have a 16 hour day tomorrow. So my prayer is to get this thing published and to go to bed. :P
Regarding rick's question-- "God didn't answer your prayer was because you didn't fully trust Him?" He makes God sound like he's waving around some Faith-o-Meter and if the reading is low... bammo! Nothing for you. The first thing that came to my mind is the end of the David and Bathsheba incident. In Samuel 2 12:16, 17. David therefore besought God for the child; and David fasted, and went in, and lay all night upon the earth... And it came to pass on the seventh day, that the child died. David seems to be doing everying right and yet his prayer is not answered. If you look at the whole story, there are bigger issues than David's faith.
Looking at the Lord's Prayer... the first thing that Jesus does is acknowledge the Lord's sovereignty. Our Father, who art in heaven, hollowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Clearly, the Lord does what he wants. When I say those words, I am aligning my will with God's. Not the other way around.
I'd love to write more... but I'll save the rest of my thoughts for such time as when I figure out the necessary html.
but wait! then there's that incident with Abraham pleading for Sodom and Gomorrah. Argh! i dunno what I believe. I jes' like to pray. :)
I like Camille's comments--specifically that answered prayer is our aligning our will with God's, and not God's aligning His with ours.
A quick response to her last observation: Surely, it is NOT God's desire to destroy anyone, no matter the depths of that person's iniquity, much less a city. This just now occurs to me after no research and only one cup of coffee, but: Perhaps, then, as with God's testing of Abraham regarding the sacrifice of Isaac, this moment is ALSO a testing, that of the human capacity for valuing ALL life, no matter how "unworthy" of value most lives might appear to be in a given circumstance. Recall that Abraham, as the father of a great nation, is in a sense analogous to God in his relation to the yet-to-be-"created" nation of Israel. Abraham, as a righteous, obedient man, might certainly--and possibly does--feel morally superior to most of Sodom and Gomorrah's citizenry . . . but not to ALL. Would not his moral equals suffer if their inferiors were destroyed?
So, then, Abraham's pleading does indeed look like prayer to us (odd, isn't it, how we tend to think of prayer in terms of the local, the specific), but they are actually more like Abraham's acknowledgement of a larger principle that God Himself works in accordance with. Indeed--Abraham's pleading is an enacting of the first thing I was taught about prayer: that the petitioner ask only for things that will benefit others, not him/her only.
John B. hit the nail on the head. We should pray expectantly for those things we know are God's will, i.e. that all people will come to know him. But if I pray expectantly with the utmost faith for some triviality, i.e. the Cardinals to win the World Series, we tempt God.
I need to flesh out my thoughts more. Thanks A.J. for the forum.
I didn't mean to open a can of worms, honest.
I read his post and thought that perhaps God was trying to test his faith, exercise, or to grow it. It was my gut reaction. Why else would being locked out turn into a God moment worthy of a post. Now you have made me go look more closly at this. Here are my random thoughts.
Heb 11:6 says:
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
and Heb 11:1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
Since Ariel has prvided us with a real life example let's explore this a bit. So did Ariel hope God would open the door and was certain that even though he couldn't see it he was certain God would? If he was so certain way did he put the book in the door. Only Ariel can answer that question.
When Jesus healed the Centurion's servant in Mat8:5, he believed Jesus would do it and his actions backed it up. in verse 13 Jesus says: "And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go; it shall be done for you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very moment." The "as you have believed" stuck out to me.
Right after that in verse 25 the diciples were in the boat and I am sure they prayed for the storm to stop but it didn't. Jesus rebuked them for not having enough faith. I doubt the storm was by chance either. It looks to me of another case of Jesus trying to grow their faith?
In Mark 6:5 it says:
And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them. And He wondered at their unbelief. Clearly Faith had something to do with Jesus ability to help the people.
However in this instance of Mark 9:24
'Immediately the boy's father cried out and said, "I do believe; help my unbelief." When Jesus saw that a crowd was rapidly gathering, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You deaf and mute spirit, I command you, come out of him and do not enter him again." '
The father says he believes but help his unbelief. This confuses me. It appears by contradicting himself perhaps he doesn't believe, But Jesus heals the man anyway.
Lastly,
In Mat 9:28
When He entered the house, the blind men came up to Him, and Jesus said to them, "Do you believe that I am able to do this?" They said to Him, "Yes, Lord." Then He touched their eyes, saying, "It shall be done to you according to your faith."
So are we to ask ourselves this question each time we pray. Do we believe God is able? I would say we all believe He is able the question that always comes to mind is will He? Or maybe that is what this verse says. Do we translate willing for able here?
Not sure where that leaves me but I have to go back to work now and I wanted to get something up.
Thanks again Ariel,
Rick
Thanks for the discussion so far, guys. I'm contemplating my own perspective on the question, which I'll try to outline in another post. I wanted to add a few notes, though.
First, my story, Risky Prayer and Coercive Modesty. Since it showcased a few of the issues involved, it seems a good idea to clarify the narrative a little.
About the mysterious locked door...
1) I was sure God could providentially "unlock it."
2) I hoped he would.
3) But I wasn't certain he would. So I grabbed a nearby magazine...
I found a latent irony in the fact that I backed up my prayer with the gearhead mag. My action could have been (and perhaps was) attributable to a lack of faith. However...this was not necessarily the case.
If I had returned to find the magazine still stuck in the door, I would have genuinely thanked God for the unlikely rescue. Furthermore, I don't think my trivial efforts with the magazine are too far removed from what we are often compelled to do because of common sense and the ability to make wise plans(both gifts of God).
Suppose I'm feely strangely unwell. If I pray for healing, and then drag myself to the hospital, I don't believe I'm embodying a spiritual/physical contradiction. God might very well use an excellent physician to bring about my recovery. Or he might choose to heal me in a way inexplicable to medical science. I'm not sure the presence of either possibility impinges upon the other.
The question, I think, is what the assertion of "faith" pertains to. Is faith concerned with God's ability to do x-specific-thing? Or does faith rest on God's overall power and sovereignty? In other words, do I have to "guess" the exact method of God's operation in order to "apply" my faith to it? Does the success of my spiritual journey depend on my ability to discern "God's will?"
I think I'll pick up this thought in my post. Although this "comment" so long, I could probably write another 2 paragraphs and call it my post.
Second arena - tech stuff. For those of you trying to link this post...if you click on "comments" from the main blog, the post page will come up. The url, in this case - http://bittersweetblue.blogspot.com/2005/10/pray-harder-are-we-playing-spiritual.html - will then be visible. As far as I know, it's not possible to link individual comments. Now that I've said that, someone can come along make me eat my words.
One other thing... Is the blog displaying strangely in IE? I ask that question with a sinking feeling...
Wow, potent topic. I do have thoughts on this, but I'll save it for a blog post of my own at my Mile From the Beach blog.
http://milefromthebeach.blogspot.com
Need to think this through given my own recent experiences with prayer and the cleansing effect that it can have.
I'll let you know when my post is up...
A.J., the page is fine on IE.
To comment on Rick's remarks. I certainly agree that God can and does work miracles. But with regard to the cited verses, is there a difference between those instances where Christ is revealing himself to the world, via a demonstration of his power as God on earth v. the situation of the Christian today, who accepts Christ's identity and purpose without the need for signs?
My this is fun.
Here's my take: Spiritual Prayer in a Physical World.
I prayed and sweated about it. ;)
ta da! I got your link in my entry. Woo hoo. Here's the link to my entry. Its kinda redundant now. :P Redundant Kamille Komments
regarding r.shermans remarks. It seems to me that in each of those situations the person was asking for something and had to trust God just like us. I would think the principle is the same. They just happened to be looking into His eyes. In our case our eyes are closed in prayer. :)
Rick
Okay, I've got my thoughts on this over at my blog (A Mile From the Beach)...finally!
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